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+--- Thread: Integrate "SURFACE TEST" into FILTER available for any operator (/thread-4510.html)
Integrate "SURFACE TEST" into FILTER available for any operator - Alexx31 - 10-03-2024
Please integrate the Surface Test as a Filter Option into any operator.
For me it would be a basic control feature inside any event for any operator.
Function could be:
If that filter is choosen, then there would appear the same menu as in the surface test operator with a window to choose the scene geometry – just integrated without the need to send partcles out of the event.
Sending particles out of the event causes unneccessary event chains and limits possibities.
Just some examples:
In detailed destruction setups, where many details were "art directed" ("let this piece fall here and this certain piece should fracture and this part please move slowly towards right and and and...") I'm coming quickly into a dead-lock with Tyflow.
If 10 tasks were needing an own event you get quickly 10 new events!
And if you want to drive everything together then, you need to add a single operator into those 10 events!
And what happens if you want all those conditions to be always active in all 10 events?
Event "cascades" are hard to read and limit the possibilities to drive things only at one place.
Sometimes it's even impossible to create something, when particles were leaving an event.
Imagine:
Surface test 1: Condition "inside volume A": example "swap material ID here"
Surface test 2: Condition "inside volume B": example "fracture here"
Surface test 3: Condition "inside volume C": example "force is available only here"
And now what happens after 3 frames: when "inside A" (which went meanwhile into a new event) is coming into Volume B where it must be fractured?
And something that went meanwhile into volume C was driven by force into volume A where it should change material ID?
again surface tests in surface test events in surface test events?
- And what happens if Volume A and B and C have an intersection?
You get quickly into endless circuits. Many simple tasks get extremely complicated if not impossible.
Furthermore:
If I have added two forces in an event, I need to copy them as well in all those other events.
And what happens to all operations which rely on "event age"? They were impossible when creating new events
p.s.
Being forced to use a new event is the same as having to flatten all layers down in Photoshop or After Effects.
We always need avoid it in a non-destructive workflow!
Imagine a color operation in Photoshop in a certain area requires a new document!
This is why there are Layer MASKS as selections within one document. And Layer Masks are the equivalent to surface tests in Tyflow.
They only tell where something should happen.
It's not a comfort feature, it's an important feature.
The complexity of an art work in Photoshop was limited until they "invented" layer masks 2 decades ago.
Please invent "layer masks" (= integrated surface tests) for tyflow
And also in After Effects we need to keep thing inside the comp as long as possible. You want to change color in an area while in other area you want to darken - two different operations each linked to different spaces at the same moment - and furthermore not just applicable at one frame but all the time for the whole clip of 200 frames.
RE: Integrate "SURFACE TEST" into FILTER available for any operator - Alexx31 - 10-03-2024
As a small incentive, let me add after some additional research:
This approach is similar to how Houdini handles particle simulations, by using attributes and groups, allowing for multiple conditions and effects to be applied within a single network at the same time, without need to branching.
And one more example came to my mind:
The strengths of node based workflows are their actually flexibilty, as long as you can connect things freely with each other:
If we look at Nuke, also node-based:
Any "Alpha" image can be plugged everywhere you want.
You can even do even mask operations (considering time, movement, intersection/subtraction/addition) in a separate network. This is non-destructive, flexible and modular.
The smartest and clearest approach for Tyflow would be to have a "surface test birth operator" for Surface Tests geometries in a separated event.
And the output can be connected as a "volume mask" into any operator in any event when you enable the surface test condition for this operator.
So you can sort all your "surface test" volumes nicely at one spot in the node graph, easy to check and adjust there, and connect them to to any operator you need to limit.
Sending particles to a new event makes only sense, if everything changes for them, if a completely new situation should happen.
But not for "art-directed" adjustments in the same setup.