Particles in a conveyor

[JuhaHo]

Thanks everyone,

After spending about two months including weekends and holidays I'm still nowhere near the solution. The client is becoming a but frustrated with me. However, I still cannot control the particles properly. Instead they are exploding all over the place.

Is there any ides what to try next? Maybe I've been doing it in a wrong way from the beginning.

[JuhaHo]

Now I'm doing a little test with copilot. I'm asking steps on event to event, operator to operator basis. Let's see what we get now.

   

[JuhaHo]

At he moment I'm playing with the Rotation operator. How it should be configured if I want the particles to keep their orientation towards their traveling direction.

   

[d4rk3lf]

For travel direction, make sure your timing is set to continuous (so it updates every frame), and keep in mind that it takes Z axis as a forward, reference to orient particles.
This is why rotation have additional options to further rotate your particles (if you don't want them to be Z oriented).

[JuhaHo]

I still don't get this. I have now spent more than three months trying to get the particles correctly out of the conveyor. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. On the picture I have outlined the particles that are behaving correctly when leaving the conveyor. The particle system explodes when I send them to new event. On the moment particles reach the to, they become very unstable.

   

I made similar animation about 15 years ago with PFlow/Orbaz tools. Now they want modernized version of the animation. However I have a long way to go to get the level of the old animation.

I also attached screenshot of tyFlow. I underlined the operator that explodes the simulation. Are there any other ways to drop the particles of the conveyor?


   

[d4rk3lf]

The only operator I see in the second event that might force them to explode is Particle Physics.
What happens if you turn off Particle Physics in the second event?
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- I also see operators that doesn't make sense. Why do you need particle physics in first event (considering you are using object bind)?
You basically force them to repel out of each other (particle physics), and then you lock them to the surface right away (object bind)... this can also cause instability, because you apply 2 opposite stuff at the same time... oh yeah... and you have collision in there too.

- Also in the third event you have fluid force, multifracture, particle physics... I mean... this can work... but you need to be careful... you are basically forcing particles to be driven by fluid simulation, and then you force them to repel of each other, and on top of that you fracture them more... this can also lead to explosive behavior.
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Don't just throw operators in the flow, without knowing what they do exactly.
Why don't you make a version of very simplified scene? Like.. instead of using many particles, use 10-15...
I also created you 3DS Max file long time a go to help.
There is also conveyor belts scene in official sample files.
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All in all, I really don't see what is causing you so much issues... try disabling particle physics everywhere, and see how it goes.
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As for Particle flow / Orbaz tools.. I've used them for years... and they are not even close to TyFlow in any segment... even first TyFlow Beta.
For example, I did this animation, long time a go, with one of the first TyFlow Beta's, and setup took me just few hours... with Particle Flow it would have took me, much much longer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqH4C4xwccU

[JuhaHo]

Thanks,

I use particle Physics for Particle-Particle collisions. If I didn't have that Two things happens:
1. The particles are not piling up so the particles form a flat carpet
2. The will be tight particle concentrations, because the particles want to be in same place and don't know that's already crowded.

After the chute, there's liquid, where the particles eventually dissolve. I have multifracture operator to split particles gradually and size test operator to vanish small particles until there's only liquid there. I have liquid force to move particles along with liquid. The liquid is moving constantly.

[JuhaHo]

I removed the Particle physics from the second event. The particles don't explode as much, however there's stray particles in the first event. I have a speed limit, but it's not enough to control these unstable particles.

I think I reduce the speed limit even more.

Anyway, the looks awful without physics in it.

   

[JuhaHo]

Yet another failed attempt. I really don't know which direction to tweak this.

   

[JuhaHo]

What is this? I think something is not right here. Can Tyson explain this?

   

[JuhaHo]

One thing, I don't understand is Time test Event operator. How it should work? For me it affects the particles in first event too. How can I avoid that? I want to send particles to next event, not to previous one. I'm sure there's logical explanation for that.

It seems the particles are sent to third event directly from first event skipping the second event, where particles are falling through a chute. For me it would be logical, that time test affect only particles in second event, where the operator is. Is this possible.

So, I need an operator that tells when particles are ready to start breaking. It requires right time and place. Is this possible in tyFlow?

   

[JuhaHo]

Since I got so horrible looking results with tyFlow, after three months I decided to go back to square one. I think the problem start, when the particles enter to conveyor. You can see the particles are coming through the walls of the conveyor and there are way too few of them. Also the particles are penetrating each other, which look very bad on renderings.

Anyway, the simulation crashed at frame 2700, because it exhausted the resources. What would You recommend next?

   

   

[JuhaHo]

If I go back to beginning where I was about three months ago. Is it possible that the problems start from this point. What do I need to do to keep the particles inside the side walls?

   

   

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I could use collision radius of 250mm, but then the particles are hovering way above the conveyer. Is there a way that particles would respect both: the sidewall and the conveyor itself. Now it looks awful.